Penny Kelly is back with me to talk about her new book and answer questions about the Trump phenomenon. Whether we are “for ‘em or against ‘em” the influence of the “strongman” and tyrant are sweeping the globe. Why? What in our psyche is participating or allowing this style of leadership to take hold. What are we as a global species crying out for? Penny Kelly and I address some of these issues in a two-part, controversial conversation that’s stated purpose is to build bridges between the “us and them” camps.